Update

It is sad I have to say this, but I clearly do:

I don’t identify with the alt-right
I have NO sympathy for neo-Nazis
I don’t think ALL liberals are bad people

My post about liberals attracted such comments:

You said destroying statues was worse than killing people.
You said fascists are anyone whose opinion you disagree with.
You said we shouldn’t worry about neo-Nazis as they are not dangerous.

(This is just a selection)

I said NONE of those things.

I really, really don’t mind people disagreeing with me as long as they at least understand what I was saying to start with. What’s the use of debating if you have your own special interpretation of what I said?

Somebody I thought I knew a little told me yesterday: “…in my fascistly liberal uncaring opinion…” when I had told this person – clearly – you are NOT a fascist liberal.
The same person followed with the fact that some young liberals they personally knew were not fascists either…when I had ALSO explained that my broad rule and divide of liberals into an older and younger generation was not foolproof and that – of course – there were exceptions in both groups.

So, ‘liberally’ interpreting my words and choosing their own version of what I was actually saying …why? I have no idea, but I was baffled and appalled.

This person thought my comment had been patronising. Right. Well, maybe it read that way if you didn’t understand it. But even if it was, how about the fact you’re talking to me as if I implied ‘this’ and ‘that’ when I made it clear to you I had not? What about that? What would you call it? Would you say that’s worse than being patronising? Because I would.

There was also the guy who knew everything there was to know about anarchy, the former Soviet Union, communism, fascism – you name it, he knew it. I have to give it to him, the guy is a fountain of knowledge. However, he was totally incapable of analysing anything. That’s the thing, an encyclopaedia is only useful if you, er…know how to use it.
This guy was also the worse culprit when it came to completely misunderstanding everything I said. He never addressed any of my points either while accusing me of that very thing.

I said: “Trump supporters have been physically attacked ever since before he became president.”

And he replied with: “… in 1930, such and such happened, also the relationship between Ukraine and Russia…and also 200 years ago, they did…blah blah blah.”

You know SO much, it’s great, but what the hell has it got to do with what I just said?? How does it apply?? Explain this to me instead of throwing in a free History lesson.

Hence there was a lot of ridiculous back and forth between me and this person and he ended up wasting his time as well as mine.

I am so very glad I wrote my “Liberal post” because some of the reactions to it proved my point perfectly: a lot of liberals cannot handle anyone disagreeing with them and if you dare do that, you MUST be right-wing. They want to re-write history by pulling down statues, discriminating against whites and the ‘privileged’ and they also like to rewrite what you said because it’s so much easier than trying to understand where you’re coming from.

How fucking sad. Nobody knows what I meant to say better than I, since I was the one who wrote it, so STOP putting words in my mouth. AND I despise the alt-right as much as I despise the hard left so don’t lump me together with people I don’t have anything in common with. It seems the concept of there being many shades of grey in between black and white is impossible to grasp for many.

But, as I said the other day and I won’t repeat myself, it’s no wonder people keep quiet when they are attacked and labelled in such a manner.

It’s funny because I – who’s apparently some kind of NaziΒ – when I read something I’m not sure about, if I’m in doubt as to what the author meant, I don’t go in all guns blazing with name calling and accusations, I ask questions, calmly. How outrageous of me.

I wrote numerous posts denouncing Trump in the last year – I had lots of people telling me they disagreed with me, but apart from one person I can recall, nobody was actually aggressive, nobody personally attacked me, nobody made me feel like utter shite for having an opinion.

However, every single time I’ve written about liberals, there’s been awful name calling, personal attacks, bullying, and in a couple of particular bad cases: stalking, with actual threats made towards me and my family.

The worst thing I ever heard was: “I hope you have children so you can watch them die slowly and painfully.” – yep, that was a liberal, not the alt-right.

There will be those now who will jump to the conclusion I just said the alt-right is incapable of insulting and bullying etc…that is NOT what I am saying. Of course they can be vile and hateful, the difference is that I haven’t personally experienced it (which does NOT mean it doesn’t happen!) AND that I would expect that type of behaviour from them – far more than I would expect it from Liberals.

I will not stop writing those type of posts, though I get lots of grief every time I do.
As I said to that fountain of knowledge the other day, you don’t have to kill people to hurt them and cause damage.

It is worth noting I didn’t just wake up one day and decided that liberals are responsible for all the ills of the world (I don’t think that either)
I have just noticed over the last few years a growing and worrying trend among liberals to insult, bully, demonise and to force their opinions on everyone else. It has been my experience – it doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY experience or even the only one worthy – but it’s been mine and I’m entitled to write about it – this is called free speech.

All that said, special thanks go to Rob who always debates calmly and reasonably. I’m not saying this because he happened to agree with my latest post, because Rob and I have disagreed about Trump in the past, but we managed to do it while remaining friendly with each other – shocking.
Also thank you to Brieuc who came in late last night to read my post and offered a rational, informed opinion. It was so refreshing and it made up a little for some of the unfair and unjustified comments that had come my way previously. This was one of my points in my last post: I will never stop speaking my mind, but it doesn’t mean I’m made of stone and don’t get affected when people verbally abuse me.
Something, maybe, to think about.

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18 thoughts on “Update

  1. Well said. My take on all this is that the extreme left and the extreme, alt, right, are two sides of the same coin. Violent and extremely vicious behavior are not the keys to solving problems. Any way, like I always say to everyone who disagrees with me, “I’m right, you’re wrong, and, by Jeebus, one day I’ll have the ultimate power to make it so.” After I say this, I usually have some wine, a pizza, and watch either Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. Those things are a lot more fun than dealing with idjits. πŸ™‚

    Liked by 1 person

  2. As bona fide liberal and centrist politician I adore your blog. You can swing from left to right, according to your personal believes and opinion. While I sometimes disagree, I always love the fresh and heart-felt approach.
    The agressive people are showing themselves as very illiberal liberals and I’m sorry you have been subjected to their fury.
    Please know that plenty of liberals are out there respecting your opinions and plenty of people get what you are actually saying without preconceived prejudice.
    As devil’s advocate I will add that your posts can be very outspoken and uncompromising, which might cause some commentators to get carried away in the intensity of their reply.
    But generally I’m frustrated with debating skills around and people’s inability to listen. The second a trigger word is heard they go off on their rants and rehearsed speeches about the subject without probably reading the end of the sentence. (mind, I can be guilty of the same thing, too.)
    Thanks for speaking up and out and keep doing what you’re doing.
    Hugs
    C.x

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Thank you so much, Christoph, for this.
      I get what you are saying, and you are right: I do write in a very uncompromising way sometimes. I have tried to curb that by not writing opinion pieces when I’m simmering with anger…I try to wait until I’ve calmed down now…unfortunately I find that I start off calm, and writing about whatever it is that had me riled up in the first place gets me all annoyed again. So, I’m basically useless πŸ˜‰
      See, this is what we need, beware – I’m about to state the obvious: a viable party that’s positioned more or less in between the left and the right. Or put more simply: a centre party (it’s late and I’m laughing at my inability to say ANYTHING tonight without being long-winded!)
      We haven’t got that over here, the Liberal Democrats were decimated which is hardly surprising after (in my opinion) their shameful behaviour in the alliance with the Conservative party. Or put more simply: the coalition (bloody hell, I’m REALLY useless tonight.)
      In any case it’s going to take time and good people to give them back credibility and relevance. In the meantime we are left with the media dominating voices of the alt-left and the alt-right. And too many people don’t identify with either and are disillusioned. And you’re right about trigger words, everybody is off as soon as they hear their own specific ones, and I have also been guilty of doing that: it is a rare day when I can hear the name Owen Jones and not go off on one IMMEDIATELY πŸ˜‰
      I’m just really frustrated with this trend of shutting down anybody who doesn’t agree with the chosen “narrative”.
      Gosh, I hope it all makes sense. But anyway, thank you again, you’ve always been supportive and I remember and appreciate that very, very much.
      Hugs back πŸ™‚ x

      Liked by 2 people

    1. If I may be so bold, the Left (at least in France) has always traveled that path. In the times of the USSR, some would comment on “the globally positive balance of the USSR”. French left right now is condoning (i.e. supporting) Maduro’s delirious regime in Venezuela!

      Like

  3. These kinds of posts make my head spin a bit because all people and interactions are so nuanced and the debates happening in the US, which I’m most familiar with, are so emotional versus rational. To a great degree, divisiveness has been a political goal in the US because it entrenches loyalties, and that is such a horrible shame because here we are, unable to communicate and make reasoned choices.

    My personal filter isn’t perfect, of course, but I try to evaluate the degree of empathy associated with a position. Nazi’s and white supremacists rate rather low on the empathy scale, Democrats as a whole tend to rate higher than Republicans in terms of policy. Every choice involves some give and take, or it wouldn’t be so hard to reach consensus. If we make choices with kindness, dignity, respect, empathy, and a solid grounding in the facts, I believe we are capable of greatness.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Thank you for your kind and generous comment, my friend! Perhaps if politicians stopped peddling identity politics which would stop the division, we wouldn’t have such acrimonious and personal attacks, like the ones you’ve endured.
    Keep speaking your mind, Nathalie, your thoughts are felt by many who choose to stay silent on the matter, for obvious reasons.

    I thought that this article summed up the intolerance we are seeing as of late:

    “The problem is that the identity obsessives want to boil down everything in American life to these categories. In practice this means allocating political power, contracts, jobs and now even salaries in the private economy based on the politics of skin color or gender rather than merit or performance. Down this road lies crude political tribalism, and James Damore’s recent Google dissent is best understood as a cri de coeur that we should aspire to something better. Yet he lost his job merely for raising the issue.

    A politics fixated on indelible differences will inevitably lead to resentments that extremists can exploit in ugly ways on the right and left. The extremists were on the right in Charlottesville, but there have been examples on the left in Berkeley, Oakland and numerous college campuses. When Democratic politicians can’t even say β€œall lives matter” without being denounced as bigots, American politics has a problem.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-poison-of-identity-politics-1502661521

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  5. Purpleanais in my humble opinion you said nothing wrong, πŸ˜€ I understand you were hung-over but I enjoyed reading and I’m as disgusted as you Sarah Champion was made to resign, groups of Pakistani men should NOT be raping white girls.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. As you must be aware, there is a great polarisation between left and right at the moment, journalists and the public are seizing on every news item as cause for further inflammatory statements – each side preaching only to the already converted, battle lines are practically drawn up! πŸ™‚

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  7. There are as many legitimate points of view about how life should be, as there are people on the planet. Why we believe that the complexity and the essence of our existence can be distilled into just 2 or 3 of those, baffles the heck out of me. Uni-dimensionality is the order of the day. Identity is constructed from a Lego set where only hard lines and separation contour the boundaries between blocks. We have lost the sense of urgency for nuance and finer details and true pioneering collective spirit in our efforts. Seems like everyone is on the B side of life – negative, critical, with more bombast than effective focused effort. —CC

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  8. Well, “late last night” was probably due to time difference. I live on Central time, six hours earlier than the UK. πŸ™‚
    (Which reminds me I thought I saw a comment of yours popping up Sunday around 1AM. πŸ˜‰ Don’t you ever sleep?)
    Going back to the debate: It has been my experience that “many” (most?) “liberals” simply cannot accept facts that do not
    fit their ideology. (Same goes for the far right). One fact: socialist economy has never worked anywhere. (USSR, Cuba, etc.). Other fact: world poverty has been reduced. In constant Purchade Power Parity, GDP per capita has grown over the past 30-40 years. But, it has grown through market economy. (What liberals call “capitalism”).
    But the minute we switch from facts to ideology we are doomed. And it goes both ways: Trump just pardoned the racist Sheriff, of I don’t where, Arizona.
    Fact: there is a growing problem of integration of the Moslem population in Europe. Denying it will not solve the problem. What are we going to do about it?
    Anyway, got carried away and will probably get Flak, but thank you Nathalie for speaking your mind. πŸ™‚

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  9. I notice the people who whinge about any thoughts that could differ from their own are quick to shut people down and call them fascists which strikes me as beyond ironic. These days most people have an opinion without doing any sort of research or listening to opposing views. I have been watching a number of SJW compilations on YouTube and it is shocking how lacking in knowledge or common sense they are.

    One of the most worrying moves is by universities pandering to kids who need trigger warnings and safe spaces and to ban people or media that have different opinions because a place of debate and new ideas needs to only have the ideas they believe in.

    Voices like yours create debate but unfortunately the immature and idiotic won’t be able to cope with your words and opinions.

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  10. I love your writing style! I share the same experience in my dealings with liberals. I didn’t vote for Trump, nor Hillary. I voted my conscience and supported someone who still had theirs…but I digress. It seems to me the folks who advertised the Love Trumps Hate, in my personal dealings, sure do lack that love part if you see things differently in any way. Great fucking post! 🀘

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Ah, thanks so much! I got quite a bit of grief for this one, I always do when I write about liberals. I’m French but I live in the U.K. and let me tell you liberals are getting out of control over here. Just as they are in the US, where one of my brothers lives. I understand where you’re coming from, I would have done the same in your place, no Trump and no Hillary for me either…but in any case, a democracy is exactly that, and people shouldn’t get verbally or physically attacked because of whom they voted for. And that’s just to start with because intolerance has been rife regarding all kinds of stuff. Anyway, thanks again for reading and letting me know what you thought – I really appreciate it!

      Liked by 1 person

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